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The Cycle

News/Business. Ari Melber. Conservative Abby Huntsman, author Toure, correspondent Ari Melber, former candidate Krystal Ball. New.

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Us 15, Spiriva 5, Allstate 4, Washington 4, Post Shredded Wheat 4, Edward Snowden 3, Goldman Sachs 3, Copd 3, Usaa 3, Angela Merkel 3, France 3, Chris Christie 3, Indiana 3, America 3, Peter King 3, Lou Reed 2, Unitedhealthcare 2, Richard Posner 2, Manchin 2, Nsa 2,
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  MSNBC    The Cycle    News/Business. Ari Melber. Conservative Abby Huntsman, author  
   Toure, correspondent Ari Melber, former candidate Krystal...  

    October 28, 2013
    3:00 - 4:00pm EDT  

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for three hours? does obama care cover mental health issues caused by using this website. enjoy your health care system and be sure to like us on facebook -- look at that, we're already up to three likes. and i like that enthusiasm. i.t., can we get someone from i.t. in here. >> this week the administration will try its on reboot. sebelius will testify wednesday and also wednesday, president obama takes obama care on the road to massachusetts, a state that's been running insurance exchanges for half a decade. mass is sets the precedent that many in healthcare.gov enrollment will spike the closer we get to the deadline. the irs says 330,000 americans
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are far enough into the process to find out how big of a subsidy they'll receive. a good indicator of how many people are signing up. but the site faced another glitch. data system that verifies applicant information crashed. 36 states using federal exchanges and the 14 states that run their own. >> friend of the show josh barrow is back, editor of business insider, he is a boston guy. perhaps the answer came from what the healthcare.gov website needs is a pep talk from david ortiz, referring to nice pep talk that big papi was giving the guys in the dugout in the game that led to that winning the game. part of the problem is there's a big project giving the pep talk, part of the problem is we have folks in the democratic party that say we need to push the deadline back. but the problem with that the
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way insurance act wearies work, they start in the spring of 2014 to look at the pool and see what kinds of claims have been lodged and figure out what the rates will be. that will mean 2015 rates could be higher and it could ruin the whole thing. >> it could mean that. if you push back individuals for the individual mandate, some people will take longer to sign up. the other that they continue to have the i.t. problems they are having, people that want to won't be able to or only with great difficulty. and the people willing to try 15 times a day and press refresh until it works will tend to be people who most need coverage and that's where insurers will say all of these really sick expensive people signed up, we'll have to charge more. there are reasons to not be too afraid. the law has various complicated mechanisms that compensate
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insurers, a lot of cost will get transferred to taxpayers and that's a problem for the federal budget but may not be a problem for the insurance market. as long as the system is working right for 2015, the insurers will say we had an unusual circumstance where we ended up with a lot of sick people and now cross our fingers, it is working in 2015 and we expect more signups. they may not push the rates up so much. the insurers have a lot of reasons to want it to work. they don't want a death spiral with skyrocketing insurance rates more than any of the rest of us do. it's not time to panic yet. the sooner the better they can get the website fixed the less we have to worry about the enrollment problems. >> extending and delaying was not an original part of the plan, but neither were the incredibly problematic glitches that we're having to deal with now. there's -- i'm really not that surprised you have a number of
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democrats pushing the extending at least the enrollment period and you have joe manchin, here he is yesterday on this week. >> working in a bipartisan manner to put a coalition together of bipartisan senators that says the penalty, the fine of $95 will not be into effect until january 2015. at that time the fine will be $325. it will still induce people to get involved but also give us a time to transition in and i think we need that period to work out the things and we've identified a lot of problems and glitches. >> josh, it isn't fair to think these americans are trying to set up and the key instrument is preventing them from doing that exact thing. if they don't solve all of the problems come end of november, it seems this delaying, whole idea is actually inevitable. >> i don't think november is the right day. keep in mind the individual mandate technically starts on
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january 1st but you don't have to pay a penalty if you have a short gap in coverage during a year, defined as less than three months. people have to get signed up by sometime in the middle of march. then they will have coverage for enough of 2014 not to be subject to a penalty. we can't say to people we're penalizing them for insurance they couldn't buy or couldn't buy without going through tremendous difficulty, but we have a few more months to figure out whether that's going to be the case of the manchin is out in front because he's from a red state where obama care is unpopular. but i think the white house is going to quite reasonably hold off for a little while before making decisions about a delay. they also have an ability to effectively delay the mandate without an act of congress. it is a thing for show for congress to talk about delaying the mandate. if it needs delayed for this reason, the white house can do it on its own. >> it's a weird denamic, you have senator manchin from a red state that would benefit dispro
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positi portion natalie, same with ted cruz. go ahead. >> big things are hard to do. federalism is hard because we end up having up to 50 different approaches to things. there's a lot of reasons why we do it this way. this law not working perfectly was crafted partly to allow for experimentation of the state level. take a look at what kentucky is doing. they've had real success there on the left. their state level site as compared to maryland which is struggle as we know the federal government is also struggling. which makes sense when you -- still keep an eye on everything in the states and time to play out? >> ideally, it would be great and i think that -- and
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washington state and some others that have a lot of signups and what they are doing right. we don't have the luxury of a leisurely schedule to sit around and saying this state is doing great things. let's be like them. up and running for 2015 and we three months to start so -- you need time to make things work. if we were going to need more, we should have had the launch of the website on october 1 with the expectation that people would rely on it for coverage for january 1. the discovery process refers to the fact they are doing wrong 'now we have to figure out how to make it work. >> that's one of the things to his point they said he did right. >> that's exactly right. and california is another example that seems to be a
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model. if you've been writing about the policy and the current health care policy is insane, it s subsidizes for example, ted cruz -- talk to us about that. >> when conservative criticize obama care in particular, the fact you're seeing premium increases for a substantial number of people, they are saying it's creating distortions and weird sub siddyes and that's true. but our health care system is also full of cross subsidies, it makes them somewhat more rational than they are right now. for example, the main way the government subsidizes health care for people under 65 is through a tax provision, where if your employer pays your cash, you pay taxes on it and if he pays in health insurance, you don't pay tax. this reduces revenue by $300 billion a year. if it were a government program, it would be one of the largest
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within the federal government. the way the subsidy is structured, the higher the tax rate, the more it is worth. ted cruz, his wife is a highly paid investment banker, they get their insurance through a cadillac plan at goldman sachs and it cost $40,000 a year in 2009. to get a sense, family health insurance would cost 15,000 or 16,000, well more than twice as expensive as normal. the tax benefit is worth about $15,000. now the cost to insure a family of four on medicaid at that time was about $11,000. so that it's not that their health plan cost more than medicaid but the part subsidized by taxpayers cost more than the entirety of medicare coverage. what the affordable care act does is shift around the subsidies, it takes the money and puts it to people who need it either because they have low incomes or high health needs and that's bad if you're a managing
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director at goldman sachs and you are going to indeed pay a higher premium than you were previously. when you lookty net effects on the overall population, more people with coverage and more people finding coverage is affordable. >> so ted cruz is a taker, got it. >> i didn't say it. >> i have no problem with ted cruz and his wife being on a plan at goldman sachs together, when he says our plan does nothing, doesn't take away from tax revenue, that's a lie. either he doesn't understand what the benefit he's getting from the government there or he's lying. we may never know. let me look forward to tomorrow with you, turning the corner a tiny bit, the house will be passing a resolution disapproving of the debt ceiling rates. so this is a messaging vote only. the senate wont have to do anything but the house republicans get to say we're angry and bitter didn't get to take the country over the debt
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ceiling. this suggests more extreme tactics ahead and they lost their courage the last second. what is going on with this party? >> this is better than what we were doing a month ago where we had threats we would hit the debt ceiling. in 2006 when president obama voted against the debt ceiling increase, they said that was a messaging vote, wasn't making polecy demands and knew it would be increased and pure grandstanding he was taking that vote for and grandstanding is basically free and that was fine. that's what's happening now in the house -- >> i like -- >> and if this is what we can limit fights over the debt ceiling too, this would be a vast improvement. >> if he ran on that that would be one thing. we know the republicans will run on this. a little bit different there, josh. >> well, it's -- i will take what i can get in terms of improvement. >> indeed. >> yes, you will. >> we've got a harvard for az
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dad and princeton, it dinner table what you get into it. it's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt. with the nsa spy game, that somebody may be america. thanks edward snowden. we spin on that. on monday, all music all hour long lou reed, "take a walk on the wild side." ♪ [ female announcer ] who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours.
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everybody is to leave here immediately. this is closed until further notice. clear the room at once. >> how can he close me up? on what ground? >> i'm shocked to find out gambling is going on in here. >> thank you, very much. >> shocked, shocked, i say. you mean to tell me the national security agency had the power to spy on whomever they pleased and may have taken advantage of that power? >> you can bet nsa surveillance will be a topic of conversation when they meet with secretary of state john kerry in the oval office. a delegation of european participate parliament officials met with mike rogers to discuss reports that the u.s. is collecting data from their citizens and spied on world leaders from 35 different countries, including the personal cell phone the german angela merkel for more than a decade. the nsa went on record to say
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that the president did not know about it. it makes me feel worse actually. the president has been forced to apologize not only to merkel but france's president and brazil's president. the eu is threatening to cancel pending trade talks. thanks, edward snowden, we appreciate it. let's spin. there's a lot of directions to go. one of the dynamic that's really interesting, to consider president obama's position here, i think we've all been trying to figure out where exactly he stands. he's been hawkish in some ways and continued a lot of these programs but he also seems sort of ret sent, saying they suspended the spying operations, they didn't know about it. peter king said something interesting over the weekend that sort of speaks to that. >> the president should stop apologizing and being defensive. the realty is the nsa has saved
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thousands of lives not just in united states but in france and germany and throughout europe. quite frankly they have done so much for our country and help this president in his term, he should be -- he's commander in chief, he should stand with nsa. >> george w. bush took like the peter king approach, the world was black and white. if it was furthering our aim of capturing bad guys, that was the end of the story. this president because he is conflicted in some ways he's not getting praise or doing the right thing by either side's opinion. he seems publicly sort of like he's not even sure where he should be did. >> i don't think he knows where he is. he didn't even know this was going on. >> come on, he knew. we talk honestly in public about what we do with intelligence, of course he knew. >> i don't think that makes it better for him not to have known. i'm not sure they would put that out there if it's not true. >> there's a factual question, if he knew and he and his team are continuing to misrepresent
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that, that's deeply problematic. they have the right and ability to not get into it. on the other hand, if you take the current statements at face value, they are also very bad for a different reason, the nsa is not keeping potus on the loop on the top secret with our allies and that is something which the president should be informed about. we've talked a lot about surveillance abuse. peter king is saying, here's a bunch of people that help keep us safe. great, there's a bunch of loyal patriotic americans keeping us safe. that is not the end of the issue. there's a whole bunch of other stuff they lied to congress about, patriot act, revisions, et cetera. and abroad while they have the legal authority to do it, i don't question that abroad. they are not keeping the president and senior advisers, according to their own statements, in the loop to conduct the diplomacy -- >> i don't know i buy that.
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why they have this information and not give it to him when he needs to act on it in certain situations. we have to do this surveillance and know what angela merkel and the president of france and brazil. now we have to apologize to them for something we have to do. we have to know what they are -- >> why do we have to tap germany? do they think germany is going to bomb snus. >> us? we don't know what secret deals they could be doing with iran and we have to know what they are telling us publicly is the same -- what we have to get down to here. this is another edward snowden leak, he was trying to protect american people, that's one thing. this was just, let me damage of america. he has less principle that we knew and he wants to do as much damage to america as possible. >> i don't know the reasons for tapping angela merkel's cell
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phone but part of the 9/11 attacks were planned in germany. >> but you don't know -- >> there are further reports that citizens are being spied on as well. it's important to keep that in mind. >> it's easy for us to say why is it going on and not when we don't understand why they do what they do. it's a gray world, not black and white. the problem i see, it's a huge embarrassment not only for president obama but constituency and they are very upset. you think what implications will this have not only on foreign policy and trade but what's preventing them from saying screw you to us. >> you know what's preventing them? we're the exceptional nation. what are you going to do? >> i think president obama has serious mending to do and i don't think he deserves the blame but he has a job ahead of him to rebuild the trust. >> we're witnessing a surveillance industrial complex that is increasingly going rogue. it's broader at home and broader
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abroad than they told the president. >> what they are doing to us. >> i have to be on record i do believe what the president has said this week and i have to be on the r0rd there's a problem when the nsa doesn't tell the president what they are doing at this high level. >> the fans have been weighing in and saying whether they believe the president was ignorant of what the nsa was doing. 46% said the president probably did know about the program. several ways you can get involved here. the poll is up on the facebook page and also on the cycle.msnbc.com. one of the great legal minds of our time, truly weighs in on what's missing from the supreme court today. it's affecting some of the biggest issues of our time from voting rights and money and politics and obama care. judge richard posner is in the
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virginia politics, former president bill clinton is on the campaign trail in my home state, stumpi stumping terry mccalliffe, it is he part of a 3-day tour ahead of the november 5th election. ken cuccinelli is getting a little help on the trail right now in fairfax from rand paul, because those are the people he needs. the latest poll has mccalliffe ahead by six points. >> visitors are able to check out the island that welcomed millions of immigrant to this country that was completely submerged when sandy churned through the harbor and without
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power for months. more than a million historical items are restored. the state legislature begins a special session on the issue in just about an hour. advocates on both sides gathered outside the state capitol. in lawmakers pass the bill, hawaii would join 13 states in allowing gay marriage. the sox took the lead in the top of the sixth thanks to the three-run homer, a touching moment when they held up plac d placards for stand up to cancer, with the names of those affected by the disease. game five is tonight and that is your news cycle. in the guest spot, we're supposed to trust the supreme court more than the political branches of government because it's supposed to pursue justice not politics. what if the court is increasingly unable or unwilling to pay that role.
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richard poesener argues that two forces risk undermining the court's legitimacy. the first is complexity as science and technology and economics radically up end the world judges can be out of their depth. the second is a system failure, to use politics when interpreting the law. he criticizes scalia for elevating dictionaries over realism and common sense which hammered decisions from gun rights to allowing too much money in our politics and he his in his new book that it can be a cover for a political agenda. joining us today, richard posner, judge, author, thinker, thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. >> let me start with a point you make in the book. you refer to a sign say outside of the restaurant, no animals allowed. pretty simple. and you say that we would have to interpret that not literally,
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you write there's a danger in appealing to generalities to decide cases a human being is an animal. a sign forbidding animals in a restaurant sure not be interpreted to ban humans and judges shouldn't apply a law based on the meaning of words compose it and they have to have a sense of what the rule is concerned with. why is that important in the court? >> why is it important? that particular example, that shows that no one committed dictionary definitions thinks you can take the literal meaning and use that to trans -- translate that into a legal rule. there are more realistic examples. if you have a park which says no vehicles in the park, that doesn't mean that if someone is injured, an ambulance can't enter the park to rescue the person, right?
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that kind of pit falls of literalism, that's everywhere in law. and judges can't be literalists, whatever they say. >> and judge, you also speak about the rising use of dictionaries have comes out of the originalist movement led by justice scalia among others. and what we see up from 3 to 33% of a certain batch of opinions, relying on dictionaries and we also see increasing references to activism and restraint and opinions. you write this is concerning because judges are getting sort of side tracked on these formalist approaches that often lead to conservative outcomes and not looking at the world around us. explain that. >> the problem for judges is we tend to not have a lot of knowledge about anything outside
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a legal book. that's a weakness. and some judges like me, for example, want to learn more about the world so i can make more intelligent decisions. a lot of judges want to retreat into the dictionary and other sources of semantic meaning. and i think that's not feasible, i don't think it helps the country and i just don't think it's -- i don't think it's actually possible. you don't really go to dictionaries for awe authoritative interpretations of legal documents. >> right. and you leave that throughout the book, the idea of being a textual originalist as a judge in the changing world we live in can be dangerous. it can lead to political agendas or a false conclusion. you make this case referring to the second amendment. this is what you write in the book. i don't agree with justice
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scalia that in difference to hundreds of deaths that might result from the supreme court's embracing a broad interpretation of the second amendment is the sign of a good judge. the consequence of deciding a case, that's something for the judge to consider. >> is it that these guys don't get the full impact of their decision-making? >> i don't know the inner workings of the minds of other judges or most other people. i think most of the judges who call themselves originalists or textualists they honestly believe they have a technique for determining the real meaning of even very old constitutional or statutory text, for example, the second amendment, which is from, 1789. but i think it's -- i don't think it's realistic.
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if you think of guns in 1789, if you think of the culture of the united states, if you think of the role of the militia as the primary line of defense of the united states in that time, it's just a different world. you can't use what people thought back then. if we even knew what people thought, which we don't, to interpret this unchanged text today hundreds of years later. >> i agree with that, sir. i want you to talk about a sentence from your book that has gotten an outside the amount of attention. you know where i'm going. this is regarding your feelings on upholding indiana's voter i.d. law. i plead guilty to having written the majority opinion upholding indiana i can't's requirement that prospective voters prove their identity with a photo i.d., a type of law now widely
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regarded as a means of voter expression rather than a fraud prevention. some people said, he recanted his decision, which is not possible and not what you did. you follow that up with an article today in the new republic saying i did not recant on voter i.d. laws. on the one hand the more and more libel identification that it requires, the more it reduces the likelihood of voter fraud. on the other hand, the more said identification requires, the more it tends to disenfranchise eliminati eligible voters. now that you see how it is working and you have more of that data, do you think these laws tend more often to disenfranchise folks than to provide integrity for the voting process? >> that is my suspicion, yeah. because my opinion which i voted to uphold the indiana law, that
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was 2007. that's six years ago. and since then, there have been a lot more of these photo i.d. laws and there's a -- mainly adjou journalistic and there's been a lot of writing and there seems to be a good deal of evidence that the primary effect of the laws is disenfranchisement of eligible voters rather than what is proper, disenfranchisement of impersonators and other frauds. so i think we learned something in the last six years. that doesn't mean my opinion was correct in 2006. we just didn't know. and i went back and looked at the opinion and the dissenting opinion and so on. and the fact is we just didn't have the information. and it was guesswork. and that's -- that really is the
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theme of my book, that judges are not going to be able to issue opinions in which they have any real basis for confidence unless they manage somehow to inform themselves not just about what's in the law books but what's actually going on in society. >> absolutely. >> judge, one decision that has been widely written about is the recent supreme court decision on obama care. a lot of folks on the left and right read politics into chief justice john roberts decision in particular. how do you view it? >> well, i don't have any insight into what the supreme court justices are thinking about. clearly the difference between the supreme court and lower courts, like my court, is that supreme court decisions have such impact and receive so much attention that the justices have
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to be thinking about things that we lower court judges don't. what's going to be the public reaction to the case? how might it affect the is a tour and status and power of the supreme court? we don't worry about that. i don't want to -- i don't know how to speculate on how they think. i was surprised by chief justice roberts opinion because he said that -- that the clause of the constitution which authorizes the federal government to regulate interstate and foreign commerce, doesn't allow people to be forced into interstate commerce. that is forced to contribute to a national system of health
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care. so under obama's health care law, under certain circumstances, if you refuse to buy health insurance, you have to pay what amounts to a fine or tax. and my own view is that the -- the american health care system is entirely national in the sense that it crosses state lines every minute really, hospitals. you go to hospitals in other states and buy insurance from companies that deal all over the country. and it's thoroughly nationalized business as opposed to local lemonade stand. >> we've been covering that as well. that's puzzling and sometimes the elevation of states rights leaves long time court observers a little confused and you speak
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to that in the book. thanks for spending time with us. >> my pleasure. >> up next, a security threat greater than al qaeda right here at home and in the heart of the nation capital. much more "cycle" ahead. ♪ okay ladies, whenever you're ready. thank you. thank you. i got this. no, i'll get it! no, let me get this. seriously. hey, let me get it. ah, uh. i don't want you to pay for this. it's not happening, honey. let her get it. she got her safe driving bonus check from allstate last week. and it's her treat. what about a tip?
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watch how one select-a-size sheet of bounty basic is 50% stronger than a full sheet of the bargain brand. it takes a strong towel to stretch a budget. bounty basic. the strong but affordable picker upper. and try charmin basic. what really keeps me up at night is the inabiblt of our government that push our economy and our society forward. a country's national security, any country's national security is more dependent on the strength of its economy, and on the strength of its society than anything else. i think there's for some reason that i don't understand, john, there's been a change from a willingness of the two parties to work together to get things done to today, two parties at each other's throat. >> former cia deputy director mike morrell says the biggest
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threat he sees to the u.s. is washington dysfunction. that's big from a guy that was with president bush during the 9/11 attacks and citing american greed as our number one problem, outfacing our economy. what do they actually want? francis wilkinson a member of bloomberg editorial board and lays it out in his recent column, i couldn't agree with you more. when you look at governors -- republican governors specifically and getting things done, chris christie, kasic or martinez, you can name a few that are in states that president obama won, but they have high approval ratings and they know what it means to work with democrats to compromise and the most recent obviously
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shaquille o'neal endorsement of chris christie. this is where the party should be looking to move forward. >> chris christie has been talking about bipartisanship a lot and doesn't want to be caught in the type of conflict in washington over and over again. if he wants to run for president is another matter because obviously there's a reason why everyone in washington is at each other's throats, it's politically beneficial. >> you write about a deeper point in your column, with the middle class nur dur res and inequality rising, they offer tax cuts for the wealthy and reduced subsidies, does the republican philosophy sort of fundamentally not match the problems of our time? >> i'm not sure if the philosophy, it's seems to be the practice more. you have two wings of the republican party. one wing wants to going ba to the 1980s and ronald reagan and
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the other to the 19th century. politics and campaigns are tests about the future. there's not that contest taking place right now in the republican party. it seems to be all backward looking and we don't live in the 1980s anymore. this is not the 1980s economy or demographics, nothing about this country is the 1980s, it's very difficult to say we're going to solve our problems by revising -- >> especially -- >> i think that division is absolutely right. some who say we have those who stand on principle and pragmatic who want to win elections. immigration will break down similarly. you think it is not dead. i'm thinking it is take little dead. why do you think it's not dead? >> i think it's maybe on the sidewalk, beaten and bleeding. >> needs obama care. >> right. it's not quite dead. there's still a contingent of
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republicans who very much feel this is an important piece of legislation to get through for their own political benefit. now, obviously, there are huge challenges to that. we've seen marco rubio in the last few days going back and forth about whether he's for it or against it. that's a pretty good indication of how difficult the problem is. >> it all goes back to winning at the end of the day. sad times, especially for the republican party. thanks for being here. your writing is great. up next, the world according to jez bell.com, the home of shiny happy ladies. stick with us.
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birth control, june cleaver and marriage in a mix of observation, and razor sharp wit. a perfect example of why jez he bell.com is a force. the feminine driven site gets 12 million readers every month. joining us is the woman behind the book. how are you? >> i'm good, how are you? >> great. excited to have you on here. let's start with one of the entries in there, which is tracy flick from election. you basically write, she is the character from election. the kind of ambitious, ruthless young women that young men imagine to be a sociopath and the rest of us who aren't sure what to do with. who doesn't want to grow up to go hillary clinton.
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isn't that movie about how gross that teacher is, anyway? reese witherspoon played tracy's ambiguity beautifully. i love that entry, i love the movie, because you don't come down on a single side. and a lot of the book is like that. >> i want to clarify one thing. i didn't write the book. i oversaw the book. >> editor, we said, editor behind the book. i know there's other bloggers. >> so people get credit, absolutely. i mean, i think that's one of the more fair entries. there are others that are more pointed and have a very, very specific point of view and don't try to quote, unquote, see all sides. that's what the site is about, having a point of view and a personality. and being funny while we're at it. >> well, and to that being funny, and to that being pointed, i loved the an rand definition. funny lost its cool factor if you want to call it, that women didn't want to identify as feminists because they were seen as this humorless, angry women
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who couldn't take a joke. now i feel like that is shifting because of your sites and writers who are having fun, making jokes. and now it's the sort of anti birth control zealots that definitely seem like the human orless ones. do you think feminism is getting its mojo back? >> well, i don't think that feminism lost its cool. i think more that feminism was being attacked from many sides, including many on the right, as being the province of humorless, strident, overly angry women and men. so i think -- this was detailed very well in susan's book "backlash." so it's not that feminism did anything wrong but it's been under assault for many, many decades. i do think that led to a lot of young women of certain generation, my generation and women younger than me feeling hesitant about identifying as feminists, even if they agreed with feminism goals. and the idea that idea that
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women aren't funny has been blown up, not just by writers on the site who use humor to make pointed statements. and i would say there is a lot of anger underneath a lot of humor, but elsewhere on the internet. >> i've always found you funny and angry, anna. >> you can be can both. >> thank you. >> the book is "the book of jezebel." and up next, saying goodbye to the late, great, lou reid. ♪ mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971.
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♪ ♪ sunday morning
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♪ brings the dawn in ♪ it's just a restless feeling by my side ♪ >> on sunday morning, lou reed, be one of the greatest and most influential amuse i goicians in modern history passed away. he was 71. he led a '60s group, and their debut album sold a paltry 37 copies but everyone who bought it formed a band. he had a lengthy and adventurous solo career with 25 releases over the last four decades. we can't talk about rock, punk, gl glamour or alternative without talking about him. he is the central symbol oh of the scene. rock experimenter, or perhaps william burrows as rocker. he was filled with been around the world, been around the block new york attitude and sang with
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a street wise nature of a new yorker who visited the underbelly so many times, he knows all of the freaks and has a place to crash there. he sang of drug addiction and sexual deviance and suicide and transcript vest rights and isolation and i use the word sang liberally for he often took a more conversational approach to singing which i think added a calming, knowing, cool hand to his edgy lyrics, and, oh, boy, did he love to write great lines. >> the pursuit of writing a great line, when you put simple words together, you can generate a great deal of emotion. >> out of that pursuit we got "sunday morning" where he says "early dawning, sunday morning, just the wasted years so close behind." and "perfect day" where he tells of a lovie placid, eye dillic day but it seems the lover he is speaking to is heroin.
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♪ just a perfect day >> and, of course, he says just the perfect day. you made me forget mooiz. i thought i was someone else, someone good. on walk on the wild side, he describes a real person part of andy warhol's world at the factory. warhol was a critical inspiration for reed. andy produced the first album although reed says andy didn't do much but that's what they needed. throughout the career, you can hear a mixing of high and low culture and treating them just the same. you can see an impishness with the media. look at him here toying in sydney in '74. >> you like taking drugs yourself? >> no. it's -- because i can't carry when i go through customs. >> were you searched by our customs men for drugs? >> no, because i don't take any. >> no drugs at all. >> uh-uh. >> and yet you sing about them. >> he sure was high on life. good night, big low. we

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